LS Re: Explain the subject-object metaphysics

Diana McPartlin (
Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:25:56 +0100

Hi Gunn and squad

Tommy Sülla og Gunn Era wrote:

> I have a feeling that in a S-O world, mind is equal
> to conscious mind, a mind that sees only objects
> and other subjects surrounding its own subject.
> If we accept subliminal perception, we will have to
> have a broader view on mind. For instance, as Tor
> Nörretranders suggests, we are a "ME" that percepts
> and throws away superfluous information and
> presents the vital information for the "I". "I" being
> the conscious mind that does not have enough
> bandwidth to process all information we receive
> through our senses.

I'm not familiar with Norretranders' work but it sounds like his "I" is
close to what I understand by the subject, namely a knowing self. The ME
sounds like some kind of filtering system which may form part of the
"mind" but is separate from the subject-self. I would interpret the ME
as being an object.

(NB. My Random House has 37 entries for mind including "the element in a
human that reasons and thinks" and the "totality of conscious and
unconscious mental processes and activities.")

> So if "I" is analog to static quality and "ME" is analog
> dynamic quality, does that mean that Quality, being
> in front of perception, is analog to our soul, the patterns
> that makes me the special one that I am?

Hmm. No. Not at all. I think you have to go way back to the beginning to
sort this out. From what you've written, Norretranders' philosophy is a
subject-object philosophy becasue he assumes a knowing self that looks
out on the world (albeit through filters). But the MoQ rejects that
basic split, so there's no way you can draw parallels between the two
philosophies. In the MoQ "I" is only an intellectual concept, there is
no soul at all.
> And is it so that S-O thinking is typical for the Western
> civilsation only?

On the whole yes, but that's a really big generalization. Pirsig is
neither the only nor the first Western philosopher to reject it. And
while it's slightly weaker amongst Easterners, it's still very
definitely there.


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