LS Re: Explain the subject-object metaphysics

Bodvar Skutvik (
Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:15:51 +0100

Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:00:51 +0000
Donald T Palmgren wrote:

> Hey, Bo,
> I'm glad that you posted this because I think you and I are
> approching the same thing from two different directions -- You, probably
> moving in a straight path, and I taking my usual eliptical approch. :)
> Take another look at my post from the 20th and tell me if this is in
> synch
> w/ where you're headed.

I found no post from you the 20th. Is it April? Forward it to me
privately if you care.

> Okay, let's see...
> For the past few days I've been thinking about how to crystalize
> my thoughts into a system. Here's a rough wack at such a thing:
> First we all begin in SO-thinking, or SO-consciousness. You
> could
> say we 'instinctivly' divide the world into I-this.

Not to pick nits, but do we really perceive the world so
instinctivly as SO-divided? It is said that babies under a certain
age have a pretty fuzzy notion of subject-self and object-other; I
-this, and its further development is not so hardwired as we may
think. It is a fact that if a human baby is abducted by animals (the
famous Indian wolf-boy) it adopts that animal's "mind". It does not
think to itself: "Oh, these stupid creatures, what am I - a human
being - doing in a place like this? Intellect is a
human-social-cultural creation, no thinking or language develops
from a complex biological brain alone.

> But this isn't an
> ontology. Metaphysics begins in 6th century BCE Greece/Ionia. So, Bo,
> you
> can at least say metaphysics begins then -- the question remains whether
> SOM begins then or later.

Do you by this agree with my assertion that what Pirsig describes in
ZMM is the birth of subject-object metaphysics? Perhaps you find it
strange that a whole new world view sprang into existence just then
....or later ... as you say? I would almost say before. Perhaps did
the SO-ivization start with the CroMagnons. Ken once said that burial
ceremonies indicated a SO perception, and the CM were the
first to leave artifacts with the bodies. Only in the said 6th
century BC did the first Greek thinkers start to enshrine it and -
finally - with Socrates and Platon did it enter our "canon".

I said in an earlier post that you and I possibly agree, but can't
find our Rosetta Stone. Hopefully is it soon unearthed. I found
the rest of what you wrote very interesting and rewarding.



"I think there is a world market
 for maybe five computers"
-Thomas J. Watson. IBM chairman, 1943

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