LS four levels of MoQ

glove (
Tue, 4 Aug 1998 06:10:06 +0100

hi Jonathan and squad

Jonathan wrote:

Somewhere else in Lila, Pirsig states explicitly that inorganic and
biological levels correspond to the "Objects" of SOM, while the social
and intellectual correspond to the Subject. I was disappointed to see
that from Pirsig.

Jonathan, it seems to me what Pirsig is doing in his writings is
attempting to describe the metaphysics of quality, something we are
unfamilar with (before reading Lila), in terms that are familar to us so
that we can form agreements with MoQ in the same way we have formed our
agreements with subject/object metaphysics. he is forced to use SOM
language to develop a starting point of agreement. i find i must do the
same when i attempt to write about the MoQ wimple model i have
developed. otherwise no one knows what the hell i am trying to say, no
matter how clear it is to me.

when Pirsig compares the first two layers of MoQ to objects, those two
layers could be said to really 'exist' in space and are what we
(composing the next 2 layers as awareness) have learned to call
defineable in terms of quality and quanity. those two layers compose
everything that is verifiably 'real' in the universe...objects in other
words. what MoQ is saying, however, is that the next two layers are just
as 'real' as the first two layers and if this is so, then the realness
of the first two layers is called into question even though those layers
seem verifiable and solid. this can only mean that the realness is
within perceptual awareness of what is being observed, by the observer,
or subject.

i too have had moments of disappointment with some of Pirsig's words
until i attempted to develop a model for MoQ and was faced with just a
fraction of the perceptual language challenges that must have been faced
by him in writing Lila. the more i delve into MoQ the more i admire the
simple and yet amazingly complex nature of its metaphysics and the more
i admire Pirsig both as a writer and a person.

also i would like to address what is called the 3 interfaces, though if
you consider my MoQ wimple model, you will see that there are indeed 5
interfaces, or levels of moral conflict, within the MoQ, just as Pirsig
stated. i havent had the time to really get into that as far as a
webpage, but hopefully i will soon have some extra time to devote to
showing how each of the 5 interfaces fit into the model.

best wishes to all,


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