Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:55:11 +0100
Hi Troy and LS,
I'm enjoying your posts, Troy. Glad to have you on board.
I especially enjoyed your analysis of the inner workings of all this and
have flagged your entire last post as a "keeper".
Troy started out:
we are diluting Pirsig's 4 levels of quality by making concrete models.
models (examples) are necessary for "understanding".
Everything you talked about was within this context, I believe--the
of our understanding of the world through the four levels.
I thnk, and you might come to see this, or maybe not, that you might
just described the workings of "intellect" within an individual, and
the amazing way the entire realm of experience is mirrored within an
individual person and grows within that person. The interesting part
you brought out is the similarity of process within the person's
to the processes of biology and society. So (as you intuited) we
not only the substance but the processes as well.
Here's a good point:
(Troy:)i believe it can be shown that anything we can cognize as having
> quality or biological quality or even inorganic quality, also "has" the
> other three levels of quality.
> our ideas and thoughts are not excluded. they are value patterns
> (inorganic); they come about, mutate, grow, and subside (biological);
> they consist of fragments of prior ideas and experience, which also come
> about, grow, mutate, and subside (social); lastly, ideas and thoughts
> are distinguishable and so they have intellectual quality, too.
(Magnus, this part relates to the robots, doesn't it? Here's how it
in people, I think)
Here's what Troy said:
> inorganic: a pattern, at least.
> biologic: a pattern that starts, "lives", and ends, at least.
> social: a pattern consisting of interacting biologic patterns, at
> note: by logic, this is reducible to: a pattern of interacting patterns.
> intellectual: a unique pattern.
I know Troy meant this literally, but here's my slant on it, what I saw
after reading his wonderful "List of Four". (I love those lists!)
I saw the creation of a new intellectual pattern.
Simple input from society:a social pattern
Personal integration: this pattern becomes part of the person's internal
of social patterns, and by its inclusion affects the rank of those
there (This is intellectual ability, DQ of the social level), which
give that person the potential of creating new social patterns by his
More complex input from society: a social pattern that includes patterns
interaction within it, (This is participation in the socialized
4.Formation of a new internal intellectual pattern. (This is a Quality
Wow! Thanks Troy! Kick back if you think I've mangled your words too
badly, but this was insightful!
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