LS in nothingness there is great work

glove (
Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:39:40 +0100

hi Bodvar and squad

you addressed this post to Ant but i would like to attempt an answer if you
dont mind.

Bodvar wrote:

As you say: Quality HAS everything; a piece of rock IS inorganic
value patterns. There are no matter particles over here and value
floating over there. And so on: A stone cannot die like a
biological organism; atomic valences and molecular interactions has
nothing to do with social value and intellectual abstractions are far
beyond stones - two levels actually.

Bodvar, a stone is not really a stone...its a description of a stone, an
agreement we have formed at some point in our lives with the stone
pertaining to its stoneness. like it or not, the stone will die when our
awareness of it dies. we are each creating reality spheres around ourselves,
and when the me-ness at the center of the sphere dies, so does the reality
sphere the me-ness has created.

i would say all of the MOQ is awareness...each layer, and each layer needs
to be present for our version of reality to come to fruition. take away any
part of the MOQ and the whole ceases to exist. its not that the rock has
quality, or that quality has the rock...its the rock being part of awareness
that gives its rockness a value within that awareness, a value that wouldnt
exist without that awareness in the first place.

the question 'does lila have quality?' is of course a zen riddle that cannot
be answered logically or intuitively no matter how one trys to turn it
around on itself. we can examine it from all sides and still be baffled as
to a precise answer. we can put rock into the question and ask, does the
rock have quality? and again we will get no logical answer even should we
say quality has the rock.

this doesnt mean we give up trying to answer the question. a zen riddle
exists to help in the perception of underlying reality and what it means in
the context of our daily lives. when the riddle penetrates to the core of
the individual doing the asking, and becomes that individual in everything
that s(he) does, then the answers will appear as if by magic. and the
question becomes an enlightenment, not a goal or an ending, but only a
beginning transcendence that will last a life-time.

these trancendences do not obliterate the previously standing ideals, but
rather encompass them and expand their boundaries (if they are proper
enlightenments) just as the MOQ does. when this happens, the idea of death
becomes an idea of transcendence, which is a natural part of the universe, a
regenerating action whereby death and life become one, and the notion of
inorganic vs organic blur into an intermeshed relationship impossible to
sort out. a mystic version of reality if you will.

it seems to me that the MOQ gives us a teaching tool that allows us to
examine each layer individually, but at the same time we must keep in mind
each layer is an intergal part of the whole and regardless of where the
layer is situated, it cannot be removed from the MOQ without destroying it.
if you remove the intellect layer, how does awareness arise of the MOQ? it

at the same time, this doesnt mean each outer layer grew out of the lower
layers...rather it means all four layers have always been in existence, just
waiting for our awareness of them to arise. if we are to really form an
understanding with the MOQ i feel we must transcend the linear notion of
time and evolution and recognize that the final form is already in existence
and we are moving towards it in the only way we can perceive...thru time,
and yet no movement is involved as time doesnt really exist except as a
perception in the mind, formed because we need the reference points in order
to function the way we do.

if we transcend the linear time notion, we will see that like the rock, the
body never dies is the self that dies, the reality sphere formed
by each self in awareness. the body lives on, turning into new life just as
our bodies came from the death of stars billions of years ago. to me, this
is of primary importance to happiness in life. if it is the self that dies,
then we have no time to waste. we are all of us here in a position to
realize the totality of self, but first we must make a transcendence past
all that we know and hold dear. the price (prize?) is immortality of self.

best wishes to all,


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