LS the four levels, catastrophic history

glove (
Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:30:14 +0100

hello Troy and squad

Troy wrote:

indeed, it is important that our metaphysical explanation of "reality"
explains *everything* with or without human "thinking". MOQ does the job
nicely; the four levels of evoltionary [static] quality provide a
"practical" tool for our human, thinking minds.
the universe may have, in history, been "more advanced" than it is today,
although "immoral" catastrophies may have wiped out such civilizations. i
like to think that things exist "elsewhere" that are more valuable in
intellectual quality than are we humans. ironically, catastrophies have
also helped things progress (Darwinian evolution) and i suppose these
catastrophies were MOQly "moral".

Troy, i am not saying there were civilizations more or less advanced than
our own, only that in pre-historic times there may have existed an advanced
(all world encompassing civilization[s]) which also arose into being in the
same fashion our own civilization has. if indeed there are other life-forms
in the universe capable of perceiving the intellect, they also would be
guided by underlying causal factors in the universe which Pirsig has
identified as the MOQ. if the MOQ is truly a universal metaphysics, then it
will be at work anywhere in the known universe. can we test this, and if we
can, will we accept the results as accurate?

there was a meteorite discovered in antartica, which has tentatively been
identified as being from mars. one of the problems with the meteorite was
the fact that it contained fossilized microorganisms, which when analyzed,
were found to contain DNA sequences. prior to this, DNA was thought to be
exclusive to the planet earth, and that if life did evolve on another
planet, its basic structure would be radically different from our own DNA.

several theories have been advanced to account for these findings. one has
life on earth originating on mars and being 'seeded' by meteorites from that
planet. the problem with this theory is how to explain the ejectory volecity
needed to escape the gravitational pull of mars for even a small meteorite.
another theory has said meteorite not coming from mars at all, but from the
earth itself. once again however, gravity rears its ugly head and makes this
theory a difficult one to agree with. another theory has all life in the
universe being seeded with comets, presumably from a common source. all
mechanistic theories, all with their own problems.

the MOQ seems to encompass this platypus by recognizing an underlying
Dynamic Quality within the static quality that we call reality. and this
underlying Dynamic Quality can be identified only by signs of its passing.
since Dynamic Quality is the same everywhere, or non-local, yet static
quality is local, it would seem that for life to arise, certain
environmental conditions must first be in place. a place like the moon, for
example, is incapable of supporting high value situations for life to use in
the first place.

if certain environmental conditions were in place locally, then the
non-local Dynamic Quality would value relatively the same conditions
everywhere. no matter the distance, they would all seem to be next to each
other despite the local perception of static quality, and the same value
driven evolutionary patterns could be expected to be followed half way
across the universe as here, provided the same environmental conditions were

your mention of 'immoral catastrophies' is certainly worth exploring more, i
think. this clue is often overlooked as being naive and simplistic. but if
we look at it from a quality viewpoint, perhaps we may see that ancient
humans indeed knew a great deal about a value driven universe and were
trying to communicate that with stories and myths dealing with morality
being tied to the universe in ways we do not agree with today, as a general

i agree that the MOQ can be used as a practical tool, but to do so, we need
to form some very basic agreements with it first, some of which are
fundamentally different than some agreements now in place due to reliance
on subject/object thinking. when such a transcendence is made however, the
old agreements have been overwritten, so to speak, and a bridge is needed to
get back, which Bodvar has identified as SOTAQI, which i am in agreement
with. unfortunately, i am not sure the bridge will work both ways...

a note to Donny,

i was mistaken when i said none of my writings contain logic, for they do.
but they also contain much trans-logic which sometimes can be mistaken for
illogic, even by me.

best wishes to all,


Truly, words have no power.
     Even though the mountain becomes the sea,
     Words cannot open another's mind. (Mumon)

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